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  1. Statut de muesli (fribbledom@mastodon.social) sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 00:20:01 CET muesli muesli

    Linux sucks at dealing with OOM situations 😒

    In conversation il y a 1 mois de mastodon.social lien permanent
    • Statut de sheik kabouti (carcinopithecus@x0r.be) sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 00:21:50 CET sheik kabouti sheik kabouti
      in reply to

      @fribbledom sucks compared to what? ::montage miscellaneous windows horror flashbacks::

      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent
    • Statut de muesli (fribbledom@mastodon.social) sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 00:21:50 CET muesli muesli
      in reply to
      • sheik kabouti

      @carcinopithecus

      Compared to anything else that doesn't freeze for minutes when you reach 80% memory usage.

      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent
    • Statut de Haelwenn /ɛlwən/ :bzh: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me) sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 00:24:43 CET Haelwenn /ɛlwən/ :bzh: Haelwenn /ɛlwən/ :bzh:
      in reply to
      @fribbledom I disabled overcommitting here, which now makes glib sucks with OOM situations, luckily the glib-based programs I have can crash.
      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent
    • Statut de '';<!--"'hansw' (hansw@mastodon.social) sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 00:24:47 CET '';<!--"'hansw' '';<!--"'hansw'
      in reply to

      @fribbledom Ask rik to solve it 🙂

      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent
    • Statut de muesli (fribbledom@mastodon.social) sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 00:31:54 CET muesli muesli
      in reply to
      • Mans R

      @mansr

      Agreed yeah. Let me be more specific then:

      Linux sucks at dealing with 20% memory avail before OOM situations.

      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent
    • Statut de Mans R (mansr@society.oftrolls.com) sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 00:31:55 CET Mans R Mans R
      in reply to

      @fribbledom OOM situations suck.

      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent
    • Statut de muesli (fribbledom@mastodon.social) sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 00:33:00 CET muesli muesli
      in reply to
      • Loweel

      @loweel

      That delays the eventual freeze just slightly.

      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent
    • Statut de Loweel (loweel@boseburo.ddns.net) sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 00:33:02 CET Loweel Loweel
      in reply to

      @fribbledom zram.

      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent
    • Statut de muesli (fribbledom@mastodon.social) sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 00:34:45 CET muesli muesli
      in reply to
      • Mans R

      @mansr

      Possibly, on all of my systems however. Swap or not doesn't matter. When I reach - pretty exactly - 80% RAM usage, my systems freeze for minutes, sometimes hours.

      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent
    • Statut de Mans R (mansr@society.oftrolls.com) sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 00:34:46 CET Mans R Mans R
      in reply to

      @fribbledom You must be doing something weird. Are you hitting swap?

      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent
    • Statut de Dissy (dissy614@mastodon.social) sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 00:43:04 CET Dissy Dissy
      in reply to
      • Mans R

      @fribbledom @mansr Well there's your problem!The kernel expected you to have replaced all your 7200rpm swap drives with PCIe NVMe M.2 flash RAID arrays.I mean it's 2020, comon now ;}

      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent
    • Statut de muesli (fribbledom@mastodon.social) sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 00:43:51 CET muesli muesli
      in reply to
      • Dissy
      • Mans R

      @dissy614

      Actually it should be rather happy then.

      @mansr

      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent
    • Statut de Dissy (dissy614@mastodon.social) sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 00:46:55 CET Dissy Dissy
      in reply to
      • Mans R

      @fribbledom @mansr I.. uh.. oh. I didn't expect that 😟

      It was supposed to be a joke on spending more for swap space solutions than on real RAM :{

      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent
    • Statut de muesli (fribbledom@mastodon.social) sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 00:48:35 CET muesli muesli
      in reply to

      Guess I'll have to upgrade to 96GB of RAM to keep browsing the web, eh? 🙄

      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent
    • Statut de Dissy (dissy614@mastodon.social) sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 00:52:49 CET Dissy Dissy
      in reply to

      @fribbledom I suppose the minimal requirements will tide you over for a few months, but 256 GB and three GPUs are recommended for web browsing.I've already moved my Chrome instance to an AWS compute center just to be safe

      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent
    • Statut de Wayne Dixon (waynedixon@mastodon.social) sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 00:58:48 CET Wayne Dixon Wayne Dixon
      in reply to

      @fribbledom you must be using chrome to need that much ram.

      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent
    • Statut de muesli (fribbledom@mastodon.social) sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 01:34:00 CET muesli muesli
      in reply to
      • Mans R

      @mansr

      64GB.

      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent
    • Statut de Mans R (mansr@society.oftrolls.com) sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 01:34:01 CET Mans R Mans R
      in reply to

      @fribbledom How much do you have?

      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent
    • Statut de sheik kabouti (carcinopithecus@x0r.be) sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 01:34:55 CET sheik kabouti sheik kabouti
      in reply to

      @fribbledom how many tabs do you have open and how long has it been since you last totally quit the browser? i'm on 8gb and i only run out of memory when browsing porn

      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent
    • Statut de muesli (fribbledom@mastodon.social) sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 01:34:55 CET muesli muesli
      in reply to
      • sheik kabouti

      @carcinopithecus

      Typically between 50 and 100 tabs, probably open for a few days up to two weeks.

      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent
    • Statut de muesli (fribbledom@mastodon.social) sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 01:35:15 CET muesli muesli
      in reply to
      • Wayne Dixon

      @waynedixon

      Firefox, actually. Same issue with Chromium tho.

      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent
    • Statut de muesli (fribbledom@mastodon.social) sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 01:39:14 CET muesli muesli
      in reply to
      • sheik kabouti
      • Loweel

      @loweel

      Sigh. Better read the entire thread. It doesn't even really OOM, it freezes at pretty much exactly 80% of memory usage, for minutes to hours.

      Yes, sorry, I need that many tabs. That's why I got 64GB of RAM in my machine.

      @carcinopithecus

      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent
    • Statut de Loweel (loweel@boseburo.ddns.net) sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 01:39:18 CET Loweel Loweel
      in reply to
      • sheik kabouti

      @fribbledom @carcinopithecus

      well, when I was young my Vic20 was able to do it. It’s perfectly logic to complain about ram usage, while using 50-100 instances of a segregated virtual machine , plus 50-100 instances of a javascript interpreter. Why should you run out of memory? Must be the operating system which sucks….

      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent
    • Statut de muesli (fribbledom@mastodon.social) sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 01:56:33 CET muesli muesli
      in reply to
      • sheik kabouti
      • Loweel

      @loweel

      No, sorry, that's totally off, it's a bit laughable. The memory usage of Firefox for all these tabs is 9.2GB.

      The only correct answer here would probably be memory fragmentation.

      @carcinopithecus

      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent
    • Statut de Loweel (loweel@boseburo.ddns.net) sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 01:56:39 CET Loweel Loweel
      in reply to
      • sheik kabouti

      @fribbledom @carcinopithecus

      sorry, no. I don’t drink that. You perfectly know that the last trend about browser is segregation of tabls, which implies no shared memory. so each tab , plus a javascript interpreter, requires more or less 1GB. Plus, the OS must cache the filesystem and keep the VMM.

      To open 50-100 of those segregated tabs, ~128Gb should be considered.

      Now we can discuss how much this browser sucks, or this html engine sucks, but still, is the browser which sucks. Not the OS. The OS is just running on undersized hardware.

      In the image below, you can see how much a single tab is taking to write this answer to you, on both browsers.

      So your machine is undersized, and linux has a little to do with the fact browsers are horribly inefficient. Yes, with no swap linux will try its best. But, still you want to keep all of the tabs running, none swapped, and you have more sw than RAM.

      What you expect?

      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent

      Pièces jointes


    • Statut de Lyra (🎼, 🦄) & Bon-Bon (🅱️, 🍬) (lyrabon@equestria.social) sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 02:09:17 CET Lyra (🎼, 🦄) & Bon-Bon (🅱️, 🍬) Lyra (🎼, 🦄) & Bon-Bon (🅱️, 🍬)
      in reply to

      @fribbledom

      🍬 #OOMkiller isn't hard enough on #Firefox. Also, since when has Firefox used significantly more RAM than Chromium? 🍬

      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent
    • Statut de muesli (fribbledom@mastodon.social) sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 02:09:17 CET muesli muesli
      in reply to
      • Lyra (🎼, 🦄) & Bon-Bon (🅱️, 🍬)

      @lyrabon

      I don't think it does, they're pretty much equal in memory consumption for me.

      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent
    • Statut de Joe :fatyoshi: (popekingjoe@mastodon.social) sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 02:45:42 CET Joe :fatyoshi: Joe :fatyoshi:
      in reply to

      @fribbledom Might as well go 128GB.

      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent
    • Statut de muesli (fribbledom@mastodon.social) sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 03:58:45 CET muesli muesli
      in reply to
      • Dissy
      • Mans R
      • chmod777

      @chmod777

      Nah, that's not it. Happens both with and without swap space.

      @dissy614 @mansr

      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent
    • Statut de chmod777@linuxrocks.online sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 03:58:46 CET chmod777 chmod777
      in reply to
      • Dissy
      • Mans R

      @fribbledom@dissy614 @mansr

      Maybe change your swapiness to something like 5 instead of the default of 20. Then it won't use swap till you hit 95% mem usage.

      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent
    • Statut de Steinar Bang (steinarb@mastodon.social) sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 11:51:38 CET Steinar Bang Steinar Bang
      in reply to

      @fribbledom Hah! Yes!

      https://steinar.bang.priv.no/2019/11/28/how-i-learnt-about-linux-oom-killer/

      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent
    • Statut de Beko Pharm (bekopharm@social.tchncs.de) sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 13:52:34 CET Beko Pharm Beko Pharm
      in reply to
      • sheik kabouti

      @fribbledom @carcinopithecus I've usually 300 tabs going (yes, yes) and 8gb are enough. Something sounds very wrong with your numbers. FF.

      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent
    • Statut de muesli (fribbledom@mastodon.social) sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 13:52:34 CET muesli muesli
      in reply to
      • sheik kabouti
      • Beko Pharm

      @bekopharm

      I assume it's memory fragmentation, even though compacting should solve that - to some degree.

      The Firefox processes combined use a total of "only" 9.2GB of memory.

      @carcinopithecus

      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent
    • Statut de midzer@chaos.social sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 14:40:46 CET midzer midzer
      in reply to

      @fribbledom I don't know what you have open, but I have no issues multi-tab browsing the web even on my 4GB ancient laptop.

      In addition 1GB per tab is not true. When you check your browsers task manager, you will see each page needs max. 100MB (with mastodon using ~90MB right now)

      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent
    • Statut de muesli (fribbledom@mastodon.social) sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 14:40:46 CET muesli muesli
      in reply to
      • midzer

      @midzer

      No, of course 1GB per tab isn't true. Whoever it was that claimed that nonsense doesn't understand shared resources or memory management on computers all that well.

      The baseline of Firefox/Chromium is roughly 350MB, but how much each tab uses very heavily depends on the website it's displaying.

      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent
    • Statut de vaartis von BSD-2-Clause (vaartis@pl.kotobank.ch) sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 16:50:15 CET vaartis von BSD-2-Clause vaartis von BSD-2-Clause
      in reply to
      • sheik kabouti
      @fribbledom @carcinopithecus I don't think there is such a thing, on desktop at least. I haven't seen one. I don't think windows even has an OOM killer. Don't know about macs but I had plenty of oom situations on windows which could only be practically resolved with a hard reset, linux at least kills the process off or you can trigger it manually with sysrq
      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent
    • Statut de :autumnleaf2: :blobboo: Bok (sudoreboot@sunbeam.city) sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 16:50:15 CET :autumnleaf2: :blobboo: Bok :autumnleaf2: :blobboo: Bok
      in reply to
      • vaartis von BSD-2-Clause
      • sheik kabouti

      @vaartis@fribbledom @carcinopithecusSupposedly it should kill off offending applications but I have never seen that happen anywhere, for anyone. Hard reset or a couple of hours of patience is the only way.

      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent
    • Statut de nighthacker2003@mastodon.social sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 16:50:15 CET nighthacker2003 nighthacker2003
      in reply to
      • vaartis von BSD-2-Clause
      • sheik kabouti
      • :autumnleaf2: :blobboo: Bok

      @sudorebootI've always had Alt+Sysrq+F work, but never seen it triggered manualy, not even with earlyoom.@vaartis @fribbledom @carcinopithecus

      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent
    • Statut de muesli (fribbledom@mastodon.social) sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 16:50:15 CET muesli muesli
      in reply to
      • vaartis von BSD-2-Clause
      • sheik kabouti
      • nighthacker2003
      • :autumnleaf2: :blobboo: Bok

      @nighthacker2003

      Right, I tried that combo as well, but I guess at that point it's already too late: the system seems to actually try to kill "offending" processes, but it freezes in doing so.

      @sudoreboot @vaartis @carcinopithecus

      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent
    • Statut de muesli (fribbledom@mastodon.social) sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 16:52:20 CET muesli muesli
      in reply to
      • vaartis von BSD-2-Clause
      • sheik kabouti
      • nighthacker2003
      • :autumnleaf2: :blobboo: Bok

      @vaartis

      Thanks, I'll try that the next time I run into this situation!

      @nighthacker2003 @sudoreboot @carcinopithecus

      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent
    • Statut de vaartis von BSD-2-Clause (vaartis@pl.kotobank.ch) sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 16:52:25 CET vaartis von BSD-2-Clause vaartis von BSD-2-Clause
      in reply to
      • sheik kabouti
      • nighthacker2003
      • :autumnleaf2: :blobboo: Bok
      @fribbledom @nighthacker2003 @sudoreboot @carcinopithecus the reality is probably that the X server is hanging too and you need to switch to raw mode with sysrq+r, and THEN do sysrq+f. That worked out quite a few times for me, the X usually becomes very unresponsive under pressure.
      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent
    • Statut de pedro@social.linux.pizza sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 17:24:53 CET pedro pedro
      in reply to
      • sheik kabouti
      • Loweel

      @fribbledom @loweel @carcinopithecus have you tried disabling swap? It will now fail-fast (and kill Firefox) instead of slowing to a crawl.

      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent
    • Statut de muesli (fribbledom@mastodon.social) sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 17:24:53 CET muesli muesli
      in reply to
      • sheik kabouti
      • Loweel
      • pedro

      @pedro

      As mentioned in the thread: I did, no difference really.

      @loweel @carcinopithecus

      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent
    • Statut de Mans R (mansr@society.oftrolls.com) sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 20:01:06 CET Mans R Mans R
      in reply to
      • midzer

      @fribbledom @midzer Over here Firefox currently has 13 processes with a total RSS of about 5.5 GB. That's with 37 tabs, not all of which have been loaded since I started it 2 days ago.

      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent
    • Statut de muesli (fribbledom@mastodon.social) sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 20:01:16 CET muesli muesli
      in reply to
      • midzer
      • Mans R

      @mansr

      Yeah, sounds fairly realistic & average for the current state of browsers.

      @midzer

      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent
    • Statut de Wetrix (wetrix@social.privacytools.io) sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 20:01:53 CET Wetrix Wetrix
      in reply to

      @fribbledom FF had a recent update for Linux browsers, can't recall what it's called, but maybe it'll help the experience?

      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent
    • Statut de muesli (fribbledom@mastodon.social) sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 20:01:53 CET muesli muesli
      in reply to
      • Wetrix

      @Wetrix

      Thanks, but already running the latest stable Firefox release here. Unless you're talking about some preview?

      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent
    • Statut de Blueberry (blueberry@fosstodon.org) sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 20:33:22 CET Blueberry Blueberry
      in reply to

      @fribbledom nohang has worked flawlessly for me

      https://github.com/hakavlad/nohang

      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent
    • Statut de muesli (fribbledom@mastodon.social) sur Sunday, 22-Nov-2020 20:33:22 CET muesli muesli
      in reply to
      • Blueberry

      @blueberry

      That looks nice, thank you!

      In conversation il y a 1 mois lien permanent

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